Find other positive topics on the gay issues.
September 1, 1998
Response to
Paulk's recent publicity
From: gaysforjesus
To: paulk@integrityonline.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:14:22
Subject: Is this the right e-mail address for you?
Message-ID: <19980717.071259.6943.0.gaysforjesus@juno.com>
Hi . . .
I see you are enjoying moments in the sun? Really interesting having your
face thrown in front of mine. An inside reporter said you are just as queeny as
you ever were and she was right. From a mile away anyone can tell you are very
very very much still the same old drag queen you always was, but now in hiding.
I can't believe the lies you and your what ever she is are telling the news
agencies lately. It is very interesting to learn the after those anti-gay
ministries listed in your TV debut that advertised an 800 number which was a
misprint and what was it 76,000 some dollars ad space brought 50 callers in to
an electronics firm and most of them were against the anti-gay ministries. I
have the article. The same straight paper had another article that went in dept
about your whatever wife. Had some good details about the lies you guys are
telling the press these days. I just got through reading apparently an update on
Exodus history. I see how you can easily white was over Bussee and Cooper as
false founders. Funny the real fact is they indeed were called to start the
ministry by Melodyland and lead it for 4 years. Hardly a fly by night
founder/leader. Another interesting fact. Your history states that now you
screen applicants for leadership. What a lie or a hipocriscy. I have read nearly
100 ex-gay leaders/founders testimonies and many come after this so called
policy change. None even came close to having a background in religion and all
were whirlwinded up to leadership as yourself. All of course had extremely
horrible childhoods and nearly all (my calculations seems to make it 99%) were
bisexuals. It seems that Exodus' policy is to have bisexuals lead ex-gay
ministries because they last longer the gays. The history admits that many
ex-ministries failed (though when I was corresponding with you and some others
you and they were adamant that success rate was high) in the early years, so now
this new policy to make sure failure is less. Jesus has no power, huh? Only
power to stay alive is man's power to organize a policy to guarantee enough
people to last slightly longer. The fact is where Exodus leaves off others
continue following up on your clients. You can't wish that away and these
follow-ups continue to report 98% failure rate over time.
I see a list of articles presented by leaders of ex-gay ministries on Exodus
site. One I know very well is Doug Houck. I have met him several times to
interview him. I watched his TV testimony where he said he was delivered
completely. Years later he was caught in the act and fired from his position at
Metonia. I have not followed up so I don't know his current state. I know He was
told to go get back right with God first.
Why aren't there ex-gay testimonies that fit gays? Why are all the
testimonies so far fetched away from normal gay life? 600 million gays and your
history brags about 400 delegates to your conventions? I went to MCC and Dignity
both had over a 1000 and this was 15 yrs. ago. PFLAG as far as I can tell is
only one organization that is larger than all the ex-gays put together and much
more stable. They really have rooted themselves in the Word. While ex-gay
leaders has yet to present a single backup to any verse they try to use against
gays. Your history never got involved with the Word and backing it up. FOCUS ON
THE FAMILY??????????? The only name your history mentioned in that paragraph
setting. What a joke. There is tons of research into James Dobson's slide away
from Biblical teaching into secularism. I have watched Dobson for decades. I
seen his change and the reports flow in as to he getting into very un-Bible
principles and supporting Mason goals.
I read a testimony from Exodus site at the point where it says testimony then
your testimony. I could see one mention of being gay or delivered from it. This
person saw the Exorcist movie and when they saw the face of the demon possessed
girl they apparently got demon possessed themselves and had a horrible time
dealing with their "strange" feelings that started (no mention of turning to
gay). What a bazaar place for such a testimony.
There are 600 million gays. Why is it so hard for the Church to hear gay
testimonies? Tell me how often have you invited gay Christians to tell about
their lives in Christ Jesus. You are so pleased to give your sick childhood to
the world. You were so blind. You admit praying to God for help and soon after
you got a wonderful lover and just look at the beautiful woman that God made you
into and how he blessed you with that career. But you ran your old pity tapes
and went back into the lie that gay is sin, this time ending up in an
ex-ministry. I wished in your testimony just somewhere I could have read how you
searched and search God's word and every source tools for researching God's word
and searched for the reasons the Church started using those 13 verses to condemn
gays.
You haven't a clue what God is about to do. You still think he will burst out
and bring many gays to become straight. One person wrote on your site that she
had a dream that she saw rooms full of counselors and another place where tons
of gays were accepting Christ. She never elaborated that these gays came because
gay was sin, that seemed to be assumed by her when she woke. I suppose you think
gay Christians don't have such dreams. All my life I have had dramatic dreams
and when I accepted Christ 24.5 yrs. ago that even increased. Many prophetic and
even the same dream in many way as that woman, but also the details that gays
are going to come in large numbers because God will openly show he loves them
and is not asking them to change and be straight. Had you cared to spend a great
deal of time in the gay Churches you could see a pattern. God is training gays,
most don't know it, but many do understand, for a coming ministry to straights.
So many straights are going to come into a great shakinging of their faith that
too many will fall away and God will send gay Christians to help them back to
faith. This will have a tremendous effect for those Christians that thought they
had lost Christ and had sinned so greatly helping antichrist to power. They will
see the very people they have so strongly believed was living in sin coming with
open arms with complete forgiveness to them their persecutors.
John Paulk wake up your time in the sun is coming to an end. Who will be
their to pick up the pieces? Will Anne? Will the Church? When I read that
history article I saw so much defense added end. Why is Bussee and Cooper such a
touchy subject with Exodus. Why can Davies boast so never having had gay sex and
calls himself an ex-gay when arriving at an ex-gay ministry and thrown into
power saw a woman and got turned on by his own testimony and married her. What
false testimonies. Davies and the rest of you may really believe you are from
the "gay world" and so delivered. I bet I know more about ex-gay leaders than
you do. How many ex-gay testimonies have you read? I have also corresponded with
you and many others and some at length. As much as you would wish you represent
deliverance or that gays can change you just can't get objective. Stand back and
observe. If you are right then all gays will fit in nicely. Like I always say
there are 600 million gays and to date not a single ex-gay ministry or anti-gay
church has allowed gay Christians to give their testimonies. SICK gays
"bisexuals" needs therapy I agree, but that give you no place to say because you
were so mentally sick growing up that you can force all gays into your sickness.
You were really pathetic child you know and so were 100% of the ex-gay
leaders/founder's testimonies I have read. That history stated some 100
ministries now fall under the covering of Exodus. Well if I read 100 or so
testimonies then that about covers it. However, there is another batch of
ex-gays ministries that also adds some leader's testimonies as well.
Isn't it the pits that so many churches won't allow gay Christians to give
account of Jesus Christ in their lives? Such a one sided lop sided picture of
gays is presented by a large portion of the Church. Why can a gay person stand
and tell their testimony leaving out any reference to being gay and it is so
well received by the Church? Most gays aren't open about their gayness while
attending their church and during testimony time tell as many in the
congregation does what good things God is doing in their lives. As long time
members of their church their testimonies are well received with plenty of
confirmation from the straight members that they accept God's work in their
lives and have no doubts they are Christian as the years go by. Why then if they
should say one day that they are gay that they have to be so rejected. Many
times decades of church service have gone by and so many complemented them about
how much they see Jesus in their lives. I speak first hand in my case as I have
told you at length before.
Please tell me what you are afraid of! Why must people like you hate gays so
much? If you as you say love gays and think they need help to change, then why
not listen to their reason why they believe you are wrong? I read much of your
articles in Exodus and I just plain can't find anything but covering up the
issues. Bussee and Cooper are Exodus' past like it or not. Why say 4 years of
their leadership can be washed under the table without giving references to the
facts. Both were college grads to boot. How quickly homophobes charge failed
ex-gays with all kinds of things. What about Quest's 14 year leader? He also
formatted HA's doctrine and steps still used today.
Doug Houck mentioned above you should know very well as Exodus headquartered
in his building for a while. His church is the church of the advanced people as
I have explained in our previous correspondence. Exodus history states just more
recently you are coming to grips with multi-denominations. MCC did this at the
beginning with little hoopla. Exodus has to face an already entrenched Church
wide doctrine of hating your brothers if not of the same church.
Why do so many ex-gay leaders have Catholic school backgrounds? You can't
hide church from gays as they grew up in a straight world and knows every detail
of straight problems however well intended, but you as an ex-gay has spent know
time with gay Christians. Though God blessed you (something you rejected) it was
still in the bar scene and I sure did not read that you spent one minute in a
gay church let alone studying what gay Christians learned when they research for
their life's sake. I hear all this stupidity about ex-gays that fail are just
flaky Christians at best.. What pure nonsense. They indeed put their life on the
limb for Christ not wanting to take a chance that they were living in sin and
figuring the Church should know what its talking about since its 2000 yrs. old,
spend a year or 2 and sometimes more trying to see if God really wants them to
change and be straight. The most stupid thing in the world is when a bisexual
starts living their straight side and say they are delivered then condemn all
gays based on this false deliverance.
Ex-ex-gays usually have the personal experience of committing their whole
life to ex-gay ministry teachings concerning gay is sin. They learn it upside
down and backwards. Then come to terms with the facts that gay is not sin or
that God simply does not love them enough to change them and so they are left
without hope. You and I know God in fact does love them enough to die for them
and did 2000 yrs. ago. So what went wrong? Is Jesus a liar and won't deliver
gays? Are all these failed ex-gays bound for hell in the first place? I know you
really believe your Exodus statistics that you have a large success rate. It is
so sick to read about so many bisexuals living their straight side so making an
appearance of lasting a few extra years. I bet beyond a shadow of a doubt that
you are still as gay as they come. I bet if you were to be really truthful you
would admit to it. I also read where your history doctrine solved this problem
by calling it temptation and not being gay. Why do you think it was a problem
enough for you all to fight so much till you came up with a way to stay gay but
call it by another name? Now you came have all the gay thoughts you like and
call it temptation that you can overcome (at least for a season).
Tell me why when online chatting with ex-gays and then corresponding with
them, no matter how harsh I may come down on them as to they have not change and
so I should never hear from them again, but wa la, there is new e-mail from them
and they admit they are far from becoming straight and still must struggle
constantly? Please, if you know any ex-gays with decent testimonies, that aren't
bisexual, that haven't gone through Catholic school, that spent time before
becoming ex-gay studying the Bible concerning gays from as it were the pro-gay
side (to elaborate, the tons of in-depth studies at exists from very well
educated scholars with doctorates in history especial Bible history and the
related historical time periods, plus all the numerous other independent studies
available) or someone that has at least spent some quality time checking out
some of this kind of material before running to a homophobic pastor like you
did, that hasn't had such a horrible childhood such as yours. I would love to
see someone's testimony that fits real life gays; not sick bisexuals like
yourself and your wife. The lie ex-gay ministers tell is all gays are this kind
of mentally sick and deep in victim set. It is just sick to hear supposed
delivered gays calling themselves ex-gay give a testimony that does not even
come close to most gays. The human condition offers a great deal of childhood
problems. Straight children have a horrible time growing very often. Why can't
ex-gay leader be smart enough to compare with a placebo group to confirm if the
horrible childhood is a valid claim to a standard condition of gays? I can tell
you plain and simple straight children's horrible childhoods are a dime a dozen.
The therapists' schedule is full because of the damage done in straight children
now adults. Can't you balance your scales of justice? You were a sick kid, don't
judge all gay kids sick because you were sick. What lies are available about
gays. Last night I watch a program on THE LEARNING CHANNEL TLC about how humans
developed there way to meet sexually. It was pretty pathetic to say the least.
Trying to guess what was going on in someone's mind 50,000 yrs. ago. (as
Christians we know it had to be 6,000 yrs. ago). The part in question was they
also through out a theory concerning all gays and what was involved. Straight
men look for a beautiful woman because that means strong babies, women look for
men that appear built enough to catch food and smart enough to take care of
them. The went on to say gays were all like women and very fem (you know like
you are). Isn't that disgusting? What facts do they base that on? I will tell
you. It is the same facts you base gay is sin on and that is you were a sick
child and so therefore all gays were sick children. This it what therapist used
to say about gays because the only gays they saw were sick gays. Finally a smart
therapist who had some gay friends suddenly realized they were gays out there
that were not seeing therapists and they seem to be able to handle life quite
well even with such horrible church persecution and families disowning them and
such. She then took on herself to begin a real study on this and that is why you
hate the American Therapist Assoc. because they say gay is perfectly normal for
gays based on strong fact and research. Narth does not base homosexual study on
research non-sick gays. That is why you love them. You loved that 1st homophobic
pastor you went to and told him your secret because he agreed with you that gay
is sin. You loved the others and groups like ex-gay ministries because you
surround yourself with those that believe like you. Truth is not involved here,
because if it was then I would have read in your testimony that you have a
sincere desire to know the truth. Sincere desire does not mean you only review
anti-gay material and the pro-gay material you get from anti-gay sources. I have
read many such sources and they certainly have not gotten their info from real
facts.
You are part of a cult, because you do not involve yourself with the
otherside of the story. Everyword I write you sit there and twist it to confirm
you are right. If I say I guarantee you I can prove gay is not sin, you would
not take it up on me. I have a very specific way of proving gay is not sin. It
requires the one wanting that proof to stand up in their faith and make some
things happen. The proof will manifest publicly in front of whoever is present.
A real pastor (I don't care if he is thoroughly convinced gay is sin or not)
must preside over this event in his church and with his congregation and agree
to very routine Christian worshipping procedures, nothing unusual except the
results. The results will be open manifestation from God so all can see God
himself answering your question if it is sin or not. If he says it is sin then
WOW what a wonder for your cause against gays. But what would you do if the
results show you it is not sin. God will move. I can also guarantee almost
completely that you do not want God to show you one way or the other, that would
disrupt your present position and you want control of this yourself. You speak
of God, but behave the opposite. Exodus history brags of growth??????????????
1976 to 1998????? 400 delegates??????????????????????? Gay Christians over flow
the convention places they meet at, why?
Back to that stupid human sexual thing on TLC. They said all gays have many
1000s of sexual partners. (James Dobson says 60 to 80 a night). I really want to
know where they get this figure. They said straight don't have so many. Later in
the program they contradicted themselves and said the beautiful well built
straight men had many sexual partners. We of course have the famous sports
figures that boast of as much as 2500 sexual partners. Still lie after lie about
gays, WHY? Shouldn't you as an ex-gay Christian want to help truth get out???
When you here such lies why don't you say no it is not so gays however sinful it
is are not having these numbers of sexual partners. Humans do indeed go through
a number of sexual partners in their lifetime. Most ministers today never bring
up there past dating as they preach to the younger generation to not have sex
before marriage. What hypocrites. They had plenty of sexual partners so why do
they now condemn the new generation?? Bible is the Bible. It says the way you
judge others is the way you will be judged. If you tell someone never to have
sex till marriage or they will reap what judgement that requires. Kind of like
Catholic schools do and your pastor does. Then you will be judged for every
partner you had. The issue is not that having sex out of marriage is sin,
because that issue is in God's hands. History shows you that we never had a time
that sex wasn't ever mostly done right. All time had big problems with it.
Everyone should be in hell, but everyone isn't and in fact it usually is a
pretty non-issue by ones deathbed concerning ones youth. Just like adultery, the
Earth would be sparsely populated if people who committed adultery were killed.
Yet, it is unmentioned, unthought of by the end of ones life as they prepare to
meet their maker. When you judge people you should look at their whole life
(birth to death) and compare the world's population over the generations. Over
all God's word is performed and his Laws accomplished for they are written on
his people's hearts. The Church wants to judge NOW today ones sins. Therefore
God will JUDGE NOW today their sins. This will happen very soon. I call it the
1260 days of breaking the power of God's people.
(disclaimer on modern versions, sorry hope to replace versions with KJV, all
modern versions are satan counterfeits)
Dan 12:7
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the
river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware
by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half (1260
days), and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the
holy people, all these things shall be finished. (ASV)
Rev 11:3
3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260
days, clothed in sackcloth." (NIV)
God is giving you again an opportunity to come back to his blessing he gave
you that you rejected. You can never be the same, but even a better life awaits
you. God is giving his Church one last chance before:
Lev 26:28
28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will
chastise you seven times for your sins. (KJV)
Verse 28 is a very serious time for the Church and it begins on the 1st day
of the 1260 days. Paul is talking to Christians and tells them of those days:
Rom 2:16
16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through
Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. (NIV)
Jesus is so good, why do you persecute the innocent? What have they done to
you? You go on TV and state lies about gays and assume you have God's blessings?
If you want to play ex-gay then don't lie publicly about real gays. Because you
had a sorrowful childhood, don't blame gays. You should get real with Exodus
history. It is full of lies. I have been around the block a few times and know a
few things. White washing Bussee & Cooper under the carpet does not help your
cause, but there in lies a festering sore that will one day erupt on you as some
clients ask questions. I know the ministry that was very involved with getting
out Bussee's story. Tell me why Exodus trashes it, not by name maybe, but by
lies about the beginning of Exodus. Why is truth so hard for ex-gay leaders? Why
can't your clients know real facts? Many of them so weak. Look at yourself and
the 100 ex-gay leaders' personal testimonies I read. You were all so weak and
every one of you walks right smack in the heart of homophobia and loved it,
because it matched your sick feeling about yourself. Why can't you tell your
clients that their are 10s of millions of healthy gay Christians and many
hundreds of millions healthy other gays. Because the Church invented the
anti-gay doctrine 700 yrs. ago it never gives any Christian anywhere the freedom
to persecute and lie about gays to maintain that hatred of gays.
Two sentences from a the Student Reference Library:
"But with the recodification of canon law under the influence of but with the
recodification of canon law under the influence of Thomas Aquinas, new attitudes
set in. Homosexual behavior was thereafter excoriated as a heinous sin. , new
attitudes set in. Homosexual behavior was thereafter excoriated as a heinous
sin."
This is a fact that no matter how much you think gay is sin actually took
place. Before that time there just was almost no condemnation of gays. This
should be very much of interest to one that commits his whole life to a ministry
dedicated to changes gays to straight because you believe it is sin. Why didn't
the nations condemn gays before? Why did they wait till the 13th &14th centuries
to make laws against gays. Why did the Church wait till Thomas Aquinas change
everything in the State & Church?
What is far more important why is Jesus with so many gays. You can't wish gay
Christian churches away nor the Christians that attend, nor all the gay
Christians in all the churches across the land that stay in their church in
spite of its often condemnation of gays. Try counting gay Christians. You just
can't. It is easy to count ex-gays just wait a little while and you down to 2%
that seems successful, not the 78% Exodus boast of. I would be quite sure as you
were talking to the TV camera here in Seattle that thoughts crossed your mind
that would be saying you still are fighting your gay side of your bisexuality.
Just remember as so many, over 300,000 homophobic Christians, say they are
praying for me that God will change me to straight and to what ever other extent
to that general effect. I will be praying for you specifically and the other
leaders of ex-gay ministries. Let's see whom God hears. The 300,000 have been
praying 12 years or so. I have off and on prayed with little direction on this
issue, but lately with direction.
I may not sound like a great loving person talking to you, but I am and this
message to you is for you sake, not mine. You don't have much place to judge
this email for you have spoken such lies publicly into the homes of many gays
who are innocent victims of yours by the words that come from your mouth. Your
words are lifeless giving false hope to those seeking help with the most fragile
things of their lives. You based you ministries on disinformation and covering
up the truth and preventing access to the truth when ever possible. You tell
client no doubt according to Exodus policy that pro-gay agenda is based on
promoting an evil lifestyle and they just twist the Bible and facts. You train
them in lies, so it will be harder to find the truth, yet in spite of this 98%
of your clients fail. When you or those like you say I twist the word, you
forget a few things. It is I that you are talking to and I know what I am saying
and the sources I came to know this info. ON the other when I say you twist the
word and facts are because of your very lack of study. History is there and when
you reject it that is your problem not the truth's problem. When report say gays
have 1000s of sex partners, that is an outright lie. A few people may have that
many and still the kings and queens of sexual immorality belongs to straight. If
I send and talk about tons of backup and even direct you or other homophobic to
where you all can see it for yourselves you call it twisting scripture, but when
I beg you for the tiniest piece of backup, you say God hates it and that is that
or to that effect. WHY can't any ex-gay leader of homophobic scholars produce
backup. Why do 100% of the homophobes I talk with (maybe 400,000 plus) all
refuse to give backup of any kind? All I can get from you all is God hates it
and a verse or 2 of the 13 verses used since 1300 AD to condemn gays. No GREEK,
no HEBREEK, no history, no testimony that appropriately fit most gays from
ex-gays, nothing at all. Jesus is the truth, the Way, & the Life so why can't
homophobe produce the truth about gays? I can spend months giving you facts
about gay is not sin. I have nothing to worry about, the most difficult concerns
to show if gay is sin or not can be found out with some researching. Homophobes
differs across the board on so many things in depicting gay to be sin.
Independent research from anyplace remains fairly consistent on most areas. WHY?
Why don't you give me a tour of Exodus, show me your workings, show me your
behavior modification techniques, and show me you sliding fee schedule. Show me
your 78% success records and how you come up with it. One of my sources worked
for Teen Challenge in SF in the ex-gay outreach. She came to know 100 ex-gay
men, and after leaving for a while returned to find non remained. She personally
knew them (all 100) She had their addresses and went to their homes. She found
98 of them all back into being gay and those who were Christian were far better
Christian than ever b4, those that were weaker simply gave up on God at that
time because he never changed them and it was lie after lie anyway about gays. 2
she couldn't find but heard from them and they too were still gay. 100% success
concerning Jesus is not asking the gay person to change and be straight. Its
people like you that are. But 100% failure rate for the ex-gay ministry. Do I
have bad information or hearsay?????? Or does information direct from the one
that knew the 100 men telling me to my face have creditability. In your eyes is
Teen challenge a flaky outfit? Why was their failure rate so high. Had they not
adopted Exodus policy to hire bisexual who had terrible childhoods and gotten
married and got Bible training from homophobic school or workshops? This way at
least there is a fighting change that if their testimonies included all the same
bad childhood, but includes "solid Bible training" and at least a yr. as ex-gay
that they would last longer than the many failed ministries? Funny Exodus hasn't
really followed its own policy.
Well enough of this, I know you like you power in the sun and real humans
don't matter much to you. You kind of love the attention you are getting. You
have a ready made audience of homophobic churches who don't want to know you
faith statement or care much if it differs from theirs, just so long as they can
rid their gay problems onto ex-gays ministry instead of using their call in
ministering God's word they send them to you and those like you who have know
pastor's call and hardly any Bible. Enjoy your power for this season, remember
the season is about to change.
Seattle
Pentecostals Prophecy and Healing Rallies
